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Post by spamwise on Feb 14, 2006 15:36:25 GMT -5
Ok, so I was going to post a bug, but upon careful review, things did perform as prescribed, but not quite as I expected. (A "Perceived bug" which then became reclassified as a "well *that* sucks". : Here's the skinny: I'm getting Tithed fairly hard core by Cirdan and he's got a palantir sitting in my space, so I wanted to destroy it. So I made some sub-optimal trades to get the requisite GLASS. I set my factory to produce palantir. And I waited patiently for production... I then see my production and the punk tithed away my glass. "No fair!" I thought. "Factories *must* produce before I get tithed". So I checked. Sure enough, they do. Then I saw my coal, which is currently below my firepower and I thought to myself, "Aw crap. My factory didn't produce because I didn't have the power, and now I've got to make more sub-optimal trades to get a glass." But then I though, "hold on just a minute. I'm a freaking Coal Miner. How the hell do I lack power?" So I looked again. And *there* it was. The cause of my woe. I refined enough of my coal into a diamond to put me below firepower, thus rendering my factory impotent, :-[and then Cirdan got to swoop in and steal my GLASS. That sucks eggs! So, in closing, I'm sure there's a case where someone would have gotten screwed by their factory producing before their refinery, so, it doesn't require a change, and it is doing exactly what it says it will do, so it's not a bug. But I'm still a little sore about seeing my plans (and objects) go up in smoke. (I would have been really pissed if he swiped the stinking Diamond that caused my plight. ) Anyway, I've vented. I'll move on and I'll live. Just let that be a warning to anybody else out there.
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vilhazarog
Diplomat
F)ight, F)ight, F)ight, P)arry, P)arry, P)arry!
Posts: 125
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Post by vilhazarog on Feb 14, 2006 21:50:45 GMT -5
Yeah you get used to that when mining coal. Especially when you've got two refineries going I often turned them off before an update where I wanted to make sure the factory ran. There were times when I wished I could turn off just one of the refineries because I knew I could do one diamond and have coal left over for the factory but not two...
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Post by jc on Feb 14, 2006 23:40:02 GMT -5
Whoa, I just mentioned this in another topic! D: I thought refining couldn't bring you below Firepower, either... I suppose it only looks for Power, and not "Coal -> Diamond" , instead... so if you have 10 Coal, and have your Firepower set to 12, and you get one free power from your Windmill that cycle, you'll somehow end up with 2 Coal and a Diamond... (well, plus the coal you got from production, but lets say you have a -10 PM ) That ought not to happen *shrugs*
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Post by spamwise on Feb 15, 2006 8:25:32 GMT -5
Yeah, the thing is... I'm not used to mining coal. It was Cirdan who land swapped me and I was trying to work my way back, but first, I need to eliminate this pesky palantir before I could attack him (which would be a risky proposition anyway, seeing as he's on a URO tile - *my* URO tile.)
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Post by jc on Feb 15, 2006 8:34:03 GMT -5
Yikes, I would worry if he has URO, as then you're likely to get smacked with an EUR blast...
I personally think I'm going to like coal mining, though. Everyone needs coal really badly, and once I get up and running, I should be able to get a lot of trading going. I mean, if I'm getting 32 Coal per turn, that's a delicious amount of coal for everyone. And with a Cellar, that'd only take up 16 spaces... and if I keep another 8 or so for Firepower, that's 20 spaces, so only a few handfulls of Warehouses would be required. If I can get ahold of an ALU producer, we could even work together to make Diamond Drills or something. <3
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Post by Lynx Shaman on Feb 15, 2006 11:13:13 GMT -5
You should have gone Aluminum. Everyone's been asking for that.
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Post by spamwise on Feb 15, 2006 11:48:18 GMT -5
I didn't *go* anything... I was a happy little URO miner (minding my own business) when Cirdan the Coal monger came trampsing into town. Now I'm stuck in a Coal town, with a palantir of the (now) URO dude taking up space and preventing my return to the peaceful homeland.
And, to make things even *more* fun, I just went on a little war rampage (attacking someone else), only to have it backfire, so now I'm heavily vassalized again (but it's my own damn fault.) Oh well.
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Post by Rasteroid on Feb 15, 2006 19:30:23 GMT -5
ok.. first of all, the coal required to make diamonds will not let coal supply go below firepower.
second, yeah, it might be nice if in some situation you could have 1 refinery running, not 2. The answer to that is, I could work an incredible level of detailed control into the game (ie, exactly what fires will you shoot in combat? how many mines refine?) but that would make the interface far more complex, and ultimately just intimidate new players and give me x10 work to do.
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Post by jc on Feb 15, 2006 20:26:32 GMT -5
It'd be a rather easy fix... just add an option that says "Refine with the second refinery?" and have the old one say "Refine with the first refinery?" ... You always want all mines to mine, unless you're about to be tithed it all, in which case you ought not to be able to turn off mining And for what fires, you can already heavily control this list via the Munitions Policy and the LVO policy, and if you implement a MVO policy, that too. Also, I'm almost certain that refining a diamond lowered my Coal count below what I had my Firepower set to... I'll test next cycle
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Post by jc on Feb 15, 2006 21:04:56 GMT -5
Just tested it. It didn't use up coal, but I also didn't use a Power for the Greenhouse despite having it on?
Perhaps this was because before mining, my coal was below my Firepower, so it didn't let me use it to power <i>anything</i> rather than another reason. Let's say, for example, you are mining Coal, and have your Firepower at 3 and you have 4 Coal, and you've set to Refine... and you gain 6 Coal (so you have 10 after). What happens then?
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Post by Lynx Shaman on Feb 15, 2006 21:15:12 GMT -5
I didn't *go* anything... I was a happy little URO miner (minding my own business) when Cirdan the Coal monger came trampsing into town. Now I'm stuck in a Coal town, with a palantir of the (now) URO dude taking up space and preventing my return to the peaceful homeland. And, to make things even *more* fun, I just went on a little war rampage (attacking someone else), only to have it backfire, so now I'm heavily vassalized again (but it's my own damn fault.) Oh well. I was talking to JC. He just went Coal, when the only BXT miner on the map is idle. Everyone's been asking for Aluminum lately.
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Post by jc on Feb 16, 2006 0:35:46 GMT -5
Actually, Freesoul and Atlatl are both in range of me, and are BXT miners... and there are two others, albeit heading towards idleness. I wonder if it's a bug or not that a Coal miner will only use coal in reserve (ie before mining) to pay for fuel costs... Why is fuel paid at the start of production instead of after at least mining? A coal miner ought to be able to mine coal, and then use that coal to power his refinery to turn more coal into Diamonds, and use any leftover coal to fuel his factory... It just makes it difficult to keep anything for fuel, if I want to keep trades up. Basically, at most I can have +1 from my Firepower, since if I had +2 someone would trade something for 2 Coal, and I'd be at +0... So that means I can only refine one item, unless I have a power plant running or cancel all of my trades. Could there perhaps be another value aside from Firepower called, like, Coalpower, which only affects coal used as fuel consumption? Or possible give new coal first, before trying for Power. >_> Hm... I don't want to cancel all of my trades, and it seems dangerous to go and build a whole power plant, especially if I'll then have to somehow get URO for it U_U
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Post by Rasteroid on Feb 16, 2006 1:46:01 GMT -5
Ok.. fuel is not used up first. Mining happens, and then however much Coal you have total after that is applied to refining.
I will yield about the multiple refinery usage though, I'll allow for 1, 2, or 3 to be selected.
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Post by jc on Feb 16, 2006 1:58:10 GMT -5
Then why didn't my Greenhouse use any fuel? D:
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Post by spamwise on Feb 16, 2006 8:31:43 GMT -5
Ok, I wasn't paying increadibly close attention to my supply levels (because I was fairly comfortable with the fact that I'd be building my palantir), but if you have logs, Rast, it was the Noon cycle on 2/14/06 that got this whole party started. If you're capable of seeing a before and after, that should illistrate the problem.
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