What's the trick to it? I'm obviously failing at it it because it looks like a joke.
Right now the only motive to go LF is to raise your PM cap if you can otherwise get a high PM.
Green raises GM cap to 30 - LF raises PM cap to 30
Green raises power by 1, LF raises your PM by your power
Green makes your pollution go away faster, LF makes it stick around for longer.
Green gets a benefit from having other green neighbors, LF has nothing of the sort AFAIK.
Going green means you're going to magically sprout veggies from empty tiles AND hurt your PM less through pollution. Going LF just gives you the chance to have a much higher PM, without giving any benefit in and of itself (I don't know you guys but I find the power-to-PM boost... laughable. It's only going to reduce the hit you take from pollution.
Green benefits my food production, AND my industry, GREATLY, through rushing. Laissez-faire hurts my food production through pollution and doesn't help with industry nearly enough to be worth the time. The only sense of LF is for already-insane-PM unlocking, not to boost your industry.
mine's generally just below 10, but of course it fluctuates a lot with the weather.
When you're not doing the URO-style don't-give-a-fuck about pollution, it's easier I find first to have a pretty decent GM, and then to work on your PM which will be around zero unaided, or closer to ten on a good day.
I'm not a power gamer though, pretty casual playstyle.
Nah, I got that far ahead when I was farming Sand, didn't I? Certainly only teched up once under the dome (well, twice, but the first one was *this* close to going up anyways)
Regardless- consider this.
As a URO miner, I'm hitting -10 on my GM. Meaning without sunny weather, any URO is going to be running a sub -10 GM.
From that, the Laissez-faire Uro miner - which was the only beneficial kind of LF miner if this thread is anything to go by, is going to be hit with a -10PM from switching to LF.
He can counter this off by smashing up his power levels to above 10, but the extra power generated from this, and the extra pollution generated pretty much even these out.
So what does this mean? From what I can tell- the power mining URO miner- heck, the regular bloody URO miner- with the desolation nerf to PM is better under normal, or GM, unless they can get their PM above 20 with drills.
I think I see what you're saying. The thing is, all your "what is better" arguments seem based on the position that GM/PM are all that matter.
I more see GM/PM as, things you need to address to keep from rioting/striking (desolation being something that's easier to deal with) in order to adopt whatever position you're looking for in the world. Then, if you can nurture them into positive territory, you get more bang for your buck.
In a global economy, if mining uro is "hard", for whatever reason.. then the market will compensate by simply driving the price of uro up.
This seems to be the very essence of the power vs. holistic gamer approach. Power gamers (especially, admittedly, in our very limited game scope) are all going to the black market, so (especially with EUR trades limited) PM is king. But to know that for sure, more data is needed from a full game environment.
But anyway, as far as I can make out the essence of what you're saying is not that uro is too heavily nerfed now, but that LF is useless?
I must admit, I've never switched to LF because I like growing things. I should probably get out of this coal tile, and go try something like being an LF iron miner or a uro mushroom-grower.
Thank you for the impetus, sir.
Last Edit: Aug 28, 2012 1:59:47 GMT -5 by Rasteroid
Uro was nerfed hard, but really, it was prolly a fair nerf- though in a market where people want EUR it's still very strong.
The main concern is LF. As pointed out throughout the thread, it's only benefit was really to the URO miner- however, with -10GM the cost of running LF, and that instantly giving you -10PM cause of the GM, it's a great big wash!
Maybe half the effect of desolation? -1 instead of -2?
I think that's good: The decision as to how it goes rests on the will of the group as a whole. If some fucker attacks everyone, the domes will go down. If someone pollutes, everybody stinks. Someone uses eur, everybody glows. It comes down to social dynamic; now I just have to balance the maps so there's one of every personality type on your map all the time, to keep it interesting.
Also I didn't want to overpower the LF recovery. I think this is a nice addition, just a tempting middle ground to dangle in front of you. Think of how easy it is to get your +10 PM no-hunger bonus, just a few pollution or an industry change away.
Last Edit: Aug 28, 2012 12:23:24 GMT -5 by Rasteroid
Yeah, 10 pollution with a dome (and my 2 for undeveloped space) is what I need to get out of desolation. Currently at 14, but if I can trade into those darn diamonds I need, perhaps another solar panel could get me there... least during extended sunny periods.
In a cruel twist of fate though, that dome that lowers pollution also prevents the usage of windmills!
And on that dome- thing is, it's just such an *easy* target. Anyone can fire a chuck of coal at a dude with a dome and score a win unless they are particularly unlucky on the return fire.
I mean, I'm not going to do it as I'd get hit. I'm a big open target, but at lesser levels- it's super easy to fire at anyone who puts up a dome for an easy cheap win.