Abolishing races

[Rasteroid]

Two ideas to abolish races before production:

1. 4 productions per day, but at totally random times.

2. Inability to attack someone who has already been vassalized this turn, guranteeing at least one tithe opportunity per victory.

Thoughts?

[vilhazarog]

I vote for #2... actually I'm surprised it took this long for this to become a problem.

[jc]

Random production would suck.

However, it might be better to let people pick their productions. Make it so they can only pick their schedule a day or two in advance, and have everyone able to see when their chosen productions are (or, on the other hand, only people with spies, or only people with spies of a particular TL) so other people aren't caught off guard when someone suddenly produces right as you're about to attack them, or something

Then you still get both sides of it - people able to wait for their production to do things, and people waiting for just before other people's productions to do things - but now people can actually pick *when* they want to do these things.

Establish a limit (like having only four productions each day, and no two productions closer than one hour apart, ever), and then just let people schedule their next two/three days of production during the Senate times (make the days 1201 to 1200 for choosing when to produce, with the first production of the day being 1800, then 0, then 600, then 1200... so it takes effect AFTER that senate meeting) , and then it would take effect immediately after that Senate time.

[Rycchus]

What's the problem with production being as it is at the moment?
#2 is quite a good idea though.

[xadeatola]

I like the idea of scheduling production, but wouldn't you just do it all while it wasn't raining?

[jc]

Nope. The four weathers of the day will be set. So you can "look ahead" if you set your productions to way late, and guess what the weather was for other people (so if you get sent some sand in the morning, you'll know it will be windy at some point).

Yes, this may give you a bit more power, since you may know when your weather will be what, but it's nothing more than someone could find out in real life - if they find out a storm took their friend's town out, they'd kind of know it will be heading their way XD

[spamwise]

You do realize that Rast's not going to allow us to choose our own production times, right?
Many things occur at production time and some of them have global ramifications (determining of rank and senate voting come to mind).
It would require many changes to the way things are, would require maintaining additional setting choices for each user, checking for production runs continuously rather than at 4 fixed points and would lead to a new quest for "beating the system".

It's probably worth listing the complaints there are against the current system and see if changes more along the lines of #2 could possibly alleviate them.

[vilhazarog]

The reason he put this up as a problem is because under the current system, if Xade has no coal, and two players see that, they can attack for the guaranteed win (or at least tie). However, whoever attacks LAST before production gets the tithe. Therefore, it becomes a 'race' to see who can wait the longest to attack but still get the attack in before production. This is kinda lame, especally if you're busy right at the moment of production.

[spamwise]

I can see the value in that. If all 8 of xade's direct neighbors see that he's out of coal, and there's a race, not only are 7 of the 8 bummed that they lost the race, but odds are that the winner is pissed because now xade's got no buildings left so won't be tithing much and xade, of course isn't all that thrilled because his empire is reduced to rubble.

So, are there any objections to the "you can only become vassalized once per cycle" proposal?

Or, what about this twist? If you attack someone who's vassalized, the master gets to fire back on their behalf, kind of a "hands off, bitch, this one's mine" effect.

[Jemaat]

If the production times are a problem, just deploy a little variance. Example: set the 0600 production to take place at a random time between 0530 and 0630, the 1200 production to take place sometime between 1130 and 1230, and so forth. The schedule is still there, enabling people to plan for rainy weather and what have you with minimal upsets, and you have the randomness to baffle "racers".

However, if this whole thing was to stop instances of multiple-vassalisation, the once-per-cycle cap on vassalisation is a better solution.

[Rasteroid]

The new thing with getting rid of this is, it could get better with only say an hour's randomness surrounding it, so production happens between say 5 and 7 rather than right at 6.

Of course, the totally random times are an option too. The question is whether people prefer that, or preceisly scheduled production.

I'm definitely going to do something with this issue soon. I'll introduce it with a very small varitiation of 5 minutes or so first, and we can work from there.

[non]

I see what the problem is. It is vassalising someone and being sure that you can keep it.

I am not crazy about the idea of random production. I like being able to log on knowing that a production has happened. In fact if I could have it my way production times would be different so I do not need to wait up.

Have you ever thought about breaking up some of the production events so they occur at different times? I was thinking maybe if thiths happend indepently of production AND at a random time then out problems could be solved. The length of the vassalage would also be adjusted when the random thith happens.

- n

[Rycchus]

I hate the idea of random production. I want to know when I can log in and I want to know when production has happened. It seems no-one has a problem with suggestion #2 though.

Or, perhaps, if your vassal gets stolen just before production, then you get the tithe anyway?

[Lynx Shaman]

I like the idea of having someone only capable of being vassalized once per cycle. Any further attempts could have the attacker stopped, due to the vassal needing to rebuild their land.

[xade]

A couple of points.
1. Sometimes you and a friend might want to nuke someone into the ground.
2. The best time to take someones land is right after they have lost to someone bigger. (When you are starting out, or you're caught inland/outland)
3. Stop using me in the examples!!!