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Post by inanimatej on Jun 14, 2012 18:55:55 GMT -5
I understand that one of the perks of Theocracy is being unable to be vassalized by someone without a church due to the grand ol' inferior faith business. That's cool. What I think could be tweaked is escaping vassalage by winning a combat vs the dirty conquistadors.
Instead of preventing the Theocrat from becoming a vassal via swapping vassal/master status, simply put them both on equal footing after the superior showing of force. Think if the Spanish lost a fight to the Aztecs and said, "ok, cool, you guys be your own bloodthirsty sort. we'll just leave you fuckers alone now."
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Post by Rasteroid on Jun 15, 2012 14:10:37 GMT -5
First of all, it's nothing to do with theocracy that prevents vassalage. It's the church building itself.
Second.. I think what you're saying is, if you are vassalized by a person with more churches than you, and you beat them in combat, the vassalage should be at least cancelled.
This coming from our interaction, where you ultimately chose to bribe your vassalage away rather than build a church to match mine. Is that accurate?
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Post by inanimatej on Jun 15, 2012 18:41:22 GMT -5
Correct; it was easier to acquire 5 food than it was to get 3 steel and then win another combat, considering I had already won the first one.
If it's based off the church alone, and not church + Theocracy, then I can understand it a little better (and have GOT to spend more time reading the manual but who does that?) but I still think there's some merit to cancelling a vassalage if you win a combat, even if you can't vassalize the person. Gives people another out aside from having to grow food.
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Post by Rasteroid on Jun 16, 2012 6:04:06 GMT -5
Well the church turns out to be a major building.. I had to make it pivotal, mainly because I had to put some cap on revolting people to theocracy, which can reduce your land area and easily destroy a great number of buildings.
The handiest vehicle for this balancing was the church, which now carries the weight of allowing a theocratic revolt, and its momentous vassalage-impacting effect.
Now you see why I am loathe to mitigate its power.
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Post by inanimatej on Jun 16, 2012 11:59:49 GMT -5
I can understand that. I just feel it might be a little too slanted in power right now, especially at a measly 3 Steel. Building one essentially ups the cost of vassalizing you to six steel, one glass, and a win in combat, and if you're already vassalizing someone, it means they have to be working a very significantly agrarian build to escape the heel of your boot on their neck. Maybe change the cost? 2 Steel/1 Glass (for all those shiny windows to the eye in the sky?)
I also don't feel terribly that what I'm proposing is a true mitigation of the Church's power. It's still preventing the owner from being vassalized, but makes it easier for someone who is loathe to build one to escape vassalage if they're going with an industry-heavy build and has no real way of acquiring food. This may be a side effect of the current economy where nobody has food for sale, and I'm black marketing all of mine for ammunition.
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Post by Rasteroid on Jun 16, 2012 14:03:47 GMT -5
it's a significant choice to have a church or not, I feel it's pretty awesomely balanced. I will mull your suggestion on changing the cost over.
What you're proposing is still a complication of existing rules that I don't think is necessary.
Are you saying you're black marketing as opposed to selling any of your pig iron? No wonder the trade board is so sparse, everyone must have the same idea.
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Post by inanimatej on Jun 16, 2012 15:58:06 GMT -5
No, I black market my food. I sell my pig iron for coal and sand to fuel the war machine.
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