A Rough Guide to Trade Ratios

[inanimatej]

Hail new Battle Miner! You might not have the hilariously thick caking of rust and dirt making up an extra layer of Hull yet that the grizzled veterans of yore have, but here you are all the same, digging through this post-apocalyptic wasteland for the sweet, sweet riches within. But how does one go about acquiring all the shiny things from the neighbourhood, without all the ugly cannon-fire? Trading, of course!

Now, any good economy is built on the basic principles of supply and value. Things in lesser supply tend to be of higher value, and vice versa. In Battle Mines, this generally means that the base materials (Coal, Bauxite, Pig Iron, Sand, and Uranium Ore) are the least valuable, whereas Factory-manufactured goods (Aid, ICBMs, and Diamond Drills) are the most valuable.

For base materials, the rate at which these materials are mined generally determines their relative value to one another: 2 Coal -> 1 Bauxite/Pig Iron/Sand, and 4 Bauxite/Pig Iron/Sand -> 1 Uranium Ore. (This extrapolates to 8 Coal -> 1 Uranium Ore, as well.) Most seasoned Battle Miners tend to trade at or around these exchange rates, and they are the rates you will find available via vassal trades (check your manuals for details on those.)

Since base materials can be used for construction costs at a ratio of 4:1 (except for Coal->Diamonds), typically the 4:1 ratio is found when trading base materials for refined ones in the regional marketplace. The exceptions to this are Diamonds, for obvious reasons, and Enriched Uranium for any resources other than Uranium Ore. Trading refined materials for other refined materials is often 1:1 for Aluminum, Steel, and Glass trading amongst themselves, while 3:2 ratios for ALU/STEEL/GLASS:DMND/EUR trades are prevalent.

Trading for Factory-manufactured materials tends to be quite a grey market. As these items require a significant investment in materials and time, their value isn't easily expressed. Generally speaking, factory items trade for roughly 1:1 with each other, and 4:1 for refined materials to acquire.

Like all economies, the world of Battle Mines is subject to supply and demand, as those controlling the supply can always set their prices accordingly, but keep in mind that the shifty Ramul could always provide players with a better deal, if yours is too demanding. 10 Coal for 3 ICBMs? Robbery I say! I'd be better served firing them at you.

[inanimatej]

Quick Reference Trade Ratios

2 COAL : 1 IRON/BXT/SAND
8 COAL : 1 URO
10 COAL : 1 ALU/STEEL/GLASS
8 COAL : 1 DMND
40 COAL : 1 EUR

1 IRON/BXT/SAND : 2 COAL
4 IRON/BXT/SAND : 1 URO
4 IRON/BXT/SAND : 1 ALU/STEEL/GLASS
15 IRON/BXT/SAND : 1 DMND
20 IRON/BXT/SAND : 1 EUR

1 URO : 8 COAL
1 URO : 4 IRON/BXT/SAND
2 URO : 1 ALU/STEEL/GLASS
3 URO : 1 DMND
5 URO : 1 EUR

1 ALU/STEEL/GLASS : 1 ALU/STEEL/GLASS
3 ALU/STEEL/GLASS : 2 DMND/EUR

1 AID/ICBM/DRILL : 1 AID/ICBM/DRILL
4 ALU/STEEL/GLASS : 1 AID/ICBM/DRILL
2 DMND/EUR : 1 AID/ICBM/DRILL

[inanimatej]

Reserving third post if need be for later use.

To all other BMers: feel free to discuss these ratios, by no means are my numbers the accepted global standards.

[Rasteroid]

I think this is a very reasonable assessment and most of the tenable points have been touched upon. Stickying.

Hehe I like how you reserved your third post slot. How are you not in charge of most things yet, smartypants? The thread is not locked or anything so people can chime in at will.

[inanimatej]

I'm just waiting for the opportunity to arise, much like waiting for potential vassals to run out of coal.

[essence]

How does Food fit in with everything else?

[inanimatej]

Food is a strange beast. Because of how easily it can grow in some conditions (bauxite agronomies, greenhouse mills, idle harvesting) it's hard to really say what it's worth. Some view it as between a URO and ALU/STEEL/GLASS in value, others find more prize in it.

[xade]

Food a funny cause when you need it, you really need it- thus are generally willing to pay above the rate for it.

For example, I'll be needing 5 food for a tech level soon- probably going to look at paying 5 EUR for the bunch.

However, outside of that though- they aren't worth a bunch as they have a limited shelflife.

[essence]

Uhh...if the ratio of Sand/Baux/Iron to Glass/Alu/Steel is 4:1, and the ratio of Sand/Baux/Iron to EUR is 20:1, shouldn't the ration of Glass/Alu/Steel to EUR be 5:1?

Where oh where did 3:2 come from? That sounds like a profound ripoff to the EUR trader.

[inanimatej]

Refined materials aren't perfectly analogous. Also I bullshit a lot, make up your own ratios if you don't like what I spewed out. Just don't complain if nobody takes them!

Additionally you forget to factor in the power cost of making refined materials. BOOMSHAKALAKA

Second edit: 3:2 ratio came from old BM. You see a trade like that, it's an oldschooler at work.

[halfvoid]

Seems like the sand guys wanna change the standard ratios.

[saiph]

Eh, I don't think my comments represent much more than my own views. And I don't think it is wrong to see sand as being anything but equal in value to bauxite and iron.

Frankly, it's hard to justify paying more for sand, when I could just throw a food and four bauxite at Ramul in exchange for four sand. Often times, that's not such a bad deal, especially during those times when I have plenty of drills, green industry, and no particular reason to rush productions.

I just generally don't feel that it is very worthwhile to be on a sand tile, and that's as someone who has no sand neighbors. I could easily be wrong, with there being advantages that I don't see and / or of which I have not set myself up to take advantage. Half the reason I went sand recently was to try to suss out what they might be, so you could say I'm still learning the lay of the land, so to speak.

[iuewen]

Maybe we are arguing for the same thing then, Saiph: I thought you were trying to say that sand was underpowered because of the negative GM on its tile. I think that all three production tiles are fairly well-balanced right now. Sand has the most economic purposes, and has a negative GM, iron is pretty neutral because cannons are always good, and bauxite is a pile of shit, but it has +5 gm.

I felt Sand was a very powerful tile to be on as a Communist while spamming Palantirs. This worked well as a Capitalist as well. It worked well as a Green industry food production site, but Bauxite worked better. However, it works much better if you are near neighbors that attack you a lot, as it is vastly easier to rebuild.

I imagine it would work well for spamming level 5 office towers and nabbing a huge PM bonus off of capitalism. The high value of sand on the open market would let your global trades be easily taken.

[saiph]

Hmm? Oh no, I think the sand tile is woefully underpowered for a non-battler. The GM penalty isn't too painful but is still inconvenient (and suggesting that one should use six tiles of land at a time to try and balance it out is no less of a penalty). The effect of Windy weather is more troublesome, I think.

Sand does have a high value on the market. That fact is what started the discussion, actually! But the majority of folks aren't especially eager to pay more than normal trade values for it. While there are some who will, the demand seems to have the greater effect of encouraging vassal trades. If posting imbalanced trades makes people want to attack you more, then that alone is the balancing factor, I think, in which case tile penalties are hardly needed.

One of the points I was trying to make in chat was that some demand is a good thing, but high demand is not necessarily a good thing. While it's nice to be able to make a profit at the trading post, if you look at it from a perspective of net gain over time, it's better to have high production and make normal trades (the arguable exception is diamonds due to their refining cost, but I think that's mostly balanced, and regardless it's completely irrelevant to the topic at hand). Thus, high demand for sand is only good when you're not rebuilding often. And if times of peace are what you're banking on, then you might as well just crank out Aids in your factory and then trade a bunch of them to Ramul for profitably big piles of sand (or bauxite, or iron, whichever you want more), in which case you can be on almost any tile.

I fail to see how it it easier to rebuild as sand. You'll have to explain that one in more detail.

[iuewen]

Ramul trading is never as easy as that. It takes a huge resource investment, and if someone notices you cranking out shit in your factory over there, you immediately turn into a huge target due to tithes.

You make the values - nobody said you had to price sand at the value listed above. If someone undercuts you, shoot them in the face and steal their sand. I would be okay with trading sand at a slightly higher rate, as long as I need it, and it is available. In fact, I think I had my sand and glass priced at a higher-than-normal rate when I was sitting on a tile (3 Sand:4 Resources, or 2 Sand:5 Coal).

It is easier to rebuild your Green infrastructure when attacked on a Sand tile. Greenhouses, Office Towers, and Solar Panels all have a huge Glass investment. That is what I was referring to: Bauxite was more profitable in the long run as Green, but it is easier to keep the Food Factory going in a heavy-combat area as Sand.

It is nigh-impossible to run a successful Communism tile on a non-sand tile.